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Success #5: He Was An Engineer And Mediocre With Women. Now, He’s Become The HOTTEST Dating Coach And Has Something Incredible to Say – with JT Tran


Have you ever experienced any of those situation?

Got rejected from a girl when asking her out for a date?

Got rejected from a prospect when asking for an order?

How to choose my perfect girlfriend?

How to choose ideal clients for your business?

I realize that dating and running a business share many similarities. That’s why I invited JT Tran, CEO of the ABCs of Attractions, who was an aerospace engineer and turned  around his bad luck in dating to become the #1 Asian Dating Coach in the world.

I invited him to tell you his story and there are three areas that I think you’ll be especially interested in.

1) Learn the secret JT used to avoid mistakes preventing you from getting what you want.

2) Learn the methodology JT used to grow his coaching business.

3) Discover 3 steps JT leveraged from his coaching business to increase your sales.


Watch the FULL program

Audio Version Like audio? No problem! “Click” here for the MP3 format.

About JT Tran

JT  Tran is the founder and CEO of the ABCs of Attraction, an independent dating advice company  operating around the world: from Canada to Europe, from South America to Australia.  Tran has appeared on multiple TV networks including  ABC Nightline, NBC, Channel News Asia.  JT has been invited to speak at  Yale and Harvard as well as the University of Chicago, Northeastern University, Rutgers, and the University of Pennsylvania.

Raw transcript 

Michael:         Hey, everyone, it’s Michael Nguyen, the host of, where successful entrepreneurs show you how to build a business and achieve success. Have you ever experienced any of the situations; got rejected by a girl when asking her out for a date? Or got rejected by a prospect when asking for an order? And you don’t know how to choose your perfect girlfriend? Or you don’t know how to choose your ideal client for your business?

Well, today I realized that dating and running a business share so many similarities. So that’s why I invited the man who used to be an aerospace engineer, but has turned around and went into dating to become the number one Asian dating coach in the world. And who will share with you how he built his coaching business from his knowledge in dating industry. And that man is JT Tran; he is the founder and CEO of ABCs of Attranction, an independent dating advice company operating around the world from Canada to Europe, from South America to Australia. And JT has appeared on multiple TV networks including BBC Night Line, NBC, Channel News Asia. And he’s also been invited to speak at Yale, Harvard and so many other universtities. We’ll talk about it later.

Hello, JT.

JT:                  Hey, Michael. Thank you so much for having me here. I hope everyone who’s watching this is going to be able to learn a lot from my transition from engineering into being an entrepreneur. Just to go off a little bit of what you were saying earlier Michael; of how there are similarities between like sales and business and dating, there is a quote from Timothy Farrell where he says that ’Your success in life can be measured by how many unconfortable conversations you’ve had.’ And whether that’s trying to sell something for your business or trying to talk to your girl, it’s very true. In order to be successful, we have to do things that push ourselves out of our boundary. Whether that’s talking to that beautiful girl or trying to ask for that job raise.


Michael:         Very well said, I love Tim, he’s my favorite author. So JT, tell us more about the scale of your business. How many students you have right now, how many training sessions you do per year and also real a little bit about your revenue in 2013.


JT:                  Ehm, well we teah a personalized bootcamp – what we call a bootcamp – for the weekend. And that can range anywhere between like a one-on-one student where that student finles me in or files in one of my trainers or it could be more of a group bootcamp. And that will go anywhere between like three to twelve students. Around like seven to ten is a good number where I feel that’s a very managable – or we can still personalize our instruction for each student. Where at the same time having a pretty good sized bootcamp, it’s like brotherly. Where Asian guys can find their brothers in arms, so to speak.


I am the primary trainer, my face is on the company and it’s been growing, I’m trying to hopefully crack a million dollars of revenue pretty soon but definitely it’s been growing every year as I get more publicity and I’ve also started to introduce my college speaking circle, where I go to colleges like Harvard and Yale and speak. And on those topics it’s different. It’s not simply dating although that’s part of what they ask, it’s sometimes more like ’How to you crack the bamboo ceiling?’ ’How do you ace a job interview?’


Like confidence and broader aspects. Because on a lot of things that make us succesful in life is about interpersonal communication. The ability to talk or relate to other people. Or the ability to lead and even brand yourself. That’s someone that is accomplished or someone that is the go-to guy for your business or for your suppliers, for yourself or for your clients.


Michael:         Talk more about that when you transitioned your market of Asian men into more related areas such as confidence, breaking the bamboo ceiling and things like that. After talk more about your business first.


JT:                  Sure.


Michael:         How was your business at the time when you won the title ’Number One Asian Dating Coach in the World?’ Just curious.


JT:                  It has credibility, basically being voted by the POA conference, you know everybody goes there to vote. And today there are a lot of Asian-American – not just Asian-American but also Asian-Australian, Asian-European who need help. Not all Asian men need help but there is always going to be a subset of men regardless of race that need help. But Asian men in general need a bit more help. Because every time I go to these conferences, it’s like almost 33% if not more of the conference are Asian. And we only form something like 4% of the population. So we’re definitely overrepresented in the dating community.


Maybe part of it is that the voting is a little bit loaded because there’s so many more Asians that vote for me but it helps when I’m vote by everybody instead of me saying ’Here’s this website, here I teach…’ People are saying that I’m good. There’s a reputation of quality, professionalism and ethics.


Michael:         How competing is it in your industry? There’s several other guys, such as David DeAngelo…


JT:                  Yes. David is someone different. He is someone that took dating products and scaled it upwards because he is not a trainer, he is not an educator, he’s someone that took a mass of dating products and sold it and scaled it up. Which, I think is incredible, that’s something that I’m working on myself. To scale.


Michael:         To scale it up a little bit.


JT:                  Right. I mean this is something that all consultants or coaches or motivational speakers like me have a certain problem. It’s that we get to a certain point where it becomes more difficult to scale beacuse I am just one person. And I have people under me but I am that personality that people want to see. Yeah, one plays at one time.


So it’s very rewarding, I have an immediate impact on a lot of people’s personality. When I help people I get immediate feedback as opposed to whether or not it’s working and that’s a very fulfilling feeling, but at the same time it’s very difficult to get to that point where… like Tony Robbins, basically.


Michael:         Right, exactly.


JT:                  Take that theme, being like that, so entrepreneurial, that large franchise that I’m working on.


Michael:         It’s really interesting about your stories that when you… you talk about your experience when within a night you got humiliated and rejected by a girl who got angry at you and said ’I don’t talk to Asians!’ and even your friend. And at night you said that you went home really sad and really depressed, how would you come around and why didn’t you quit?


JT:                  Yeah, like I literally went home and I cried. I got racism in like one night from a girl, right? And the girl didn’t want to talk to Asians, she said and the guy was making fun of Asians, you know? Small penis, and a lot of those stereotypes.


But that’s the ability to get back up when you fell. It’s a testament of success and a testament of character and being a man, so to speak. As I expressed it on my Facebook, the good may face pain but the great embrace it. You have to be able to embrace the pain. Because it’s what makes us better as I tell my students, every failure is a lesson. And every lesson makes you stronger, it makes you better. You can’t get good until you make the mistakes.


Michael:         But if you put that into the perspective at that time when you got no help, no motivation from your neighbor or your friend, like ’JT, you’ve got to stand up. Every failure is a lesson.’ You didn’t get any kind of help like that. How did you – what made you so persistent to go out and try it again?


JT:                  Well, that’s one of the cornerstones of what I teach that ABC is a retraction. It’s a six-phase step system and each one has like three particular cornerstones to it. Inner game, inner confidence, your verbal game, the way you speak and then your physical game, your body language, how you present yourself.


And in this case it’s what we call inner confidence. It’s that fire in your belly that wants you to win, to go out there and regardless of the pain… and there are a lot of different ways to look at it. I always thought that I was smart and I was driven and that there was no reason why I couldn’t tackle this. You know, being an aresospace engineer, working on spacecraft and satellites, you know it’s just human psychology and sexuality, there’s no reason why I shouldn’t be able to apply my intellect and solve it.


But even more than that, you know, when I really started thinking about it in the context of my family, I’m sure you’re similar here, but my mom came from Vietnam. My step-dad got thrown into one of those re-education camps because he was a police officer.


So yeah when I saw it sucked that I got made fun of, but my parents had it way worse than me. They came over here and really had to start a life and then there was no safety net. Like, whatever pain I think I went through, my family, my people have gone through so much more. So it’s just a little pain compared to anything else that they had to be able to withstand.


So, they could do that. So I think I just have to try to do as much possible as my mom had to face. So you just dig deep whether it’s your own personality, or you get it straight from your family, or your friends, it’s like if you want to win, then you go on and you’ll have to face the defeats. That’s part of success, it’s the pain.


Michael:         So you compared your pain versus the pain of your parents when they moved over here. And you said ’My parents, I’m nothing compared to them.’ So that’s one of the ways…


JT:                  If you think about it, getting rejected by a white girl or a black girl, getting made fun of by white kids, it’s not pleasant but my mom had to face so much more. Just coming here and all the things she had to face and my grandparents, too. So, when you take that context, it’s pretty small.


Michael:         It’s crucial that nowadays it’s so easy to give up. When they hit a state like you, depressed, people just give up. They supress that feeling inside. And there’s no way they can get out and be themselves again.


How do you sort of pull the potential out of yours tudents and say ’Hey, be confident. You can do that, you’re worth so much more.’


JT:                  Well that’s sort of… I’m sorry I think we got a little bit feedback on this. Do you want me to put on my earphones? Maybe that will help eliminate it.


Michael:         So far I’m good from my end.


JT:                  Oh, okay, it’s just some distraction. You can edit that. Okay, let me put on my earphones.


Michael:         Sure, well, whatever works for you.


JT:                  Yeah, it’s just kind of distractive. Okay, wait a minute. Is it good?


Michael:         Yep, you’re good now.


JT:                  Hello?


Michael:         Yeah, I’m here.


JT:                  Okay. There’s still feedback. I still hear your feedback. Well, I’ll just try to ignore it. Can you ask your question again?


Michael:         Yeah, sure, I’ll ask again. Nowadays people are so easy to give up and when they have the type of rejection which you had the other night when you went out, it’s so easy to supress that feeling and say ’I’m not worth it, I don’t have a potential, I don’t have the kind of confidence.’ But when you train your students, it’s kind of hard for them to realize that how you pull the potnetial out, ’You are worth so much more than that.’


JT:                  Yeah. It can be difficult sometimes. Part of it is, a lot of people have been miswired in the way they think of success and failure. I always use the example of the stock market for an analogy where the average people will buy a stock when it’s high and they’ll sell it when it’s low. Part of that is because they’re seeking to avoid pain. They spend more time to avoid pain, they’re seeking to take pleasure. They seek pleasure first. And then they avoid the pain. Average people will spend more energy avoiding pain. And that’s why they hold on for a stock for so long.


And that’s the same thing about talking to girls. Talking to beautiful girls. Talk to a girl who could be your future girlfriend. Who could be the love of your life. Who could be the future mother of your child. It’s supposed to be fun. It’s supposed to be rewarding. It’s not supposed to be scarry.


But somehow society, culture, the TV and media has taught us that talking to a girl or being succesful is painful. It takes a while to rewire their brain so that they have… you know, they have the psychology of a succesful person. And it does take a while. That’s why I have a bootcamp of three days and three nights. And if they can’t find that inner confidence and just pull it out of their own hearts – I mean that’s also why we have myself and trainers out in the field with the students and they’re seeing me how to talk to girls. They’re seeing me compete against these tall and good-looking white guys. And when they see me being succesful with girls, it sometimes blows their minds because they’d never seen it before.


While others say they’ve been okay with dating, other students have literally never seen an Asian guy be with a beautiful white girl or black girl. So they see that, it helps a lot.


Michael:         So you lead by example. And remember in one of the interviews you mentioned that when a student drove you after he flew you in for a training and then he drove you out to the airport and then he said that it feels so much better when you do it and then … can you tell us more about that story?


JT:                  Yeah, if that’s the story that I’m thinking of, I had a one-on-one, I think it was in Chicago, and we were so tired and he was driving me back to the airport. And he says ’JT, I had such an incredible experience. But I really knew that this was going to be great when I saw you at the airport and picked you up.’ Oh okay, and he looks up to me and says ’Yeah, it’s like when I saw you that you’re short and you’re unattractive, if you can do it, I can do it.’ Well, thanks for calling me ugly, alright.


I mean I know what I look like, I’m a very average-looking guy I’m sure. But as I always say, you know, I wish I was taller and more handsome, but I can set up with being short, stunning and smooth.


Michael:         So when you were and aerospace engineer, you still had the competitiveness, you still had the confidence in yourself to go out and try to improve things, improve your situation, right?


JT:                  Yeah, I realize it comes from our background as immigrants. We came here because we wanted to do better. It’s not our part to just be lazy and just wallow in our own mediocrity. We want to get out there and we want to improve our stock. We want to improve our market value not only for our family, but also for our future kids. And that applies to business, finance as well as romance. We’re here because we want to have more money but we’re also here because we want to have a great family.


And that’s why I told my mom it doesn’t matter what race her future daughter-in-law is going to be, she could be white, Asian, black, but that woman is going to be amazing. I’m not going to just settle for any average girl. I want a beautiful, loyal, intelligent, educated, cosmopolitan, world traveller woman.


We are here to be succesful, we are not here to accept average.


Michael:         So how do you perfect your acts of pick up artist and how do you prepare your material so that you could become a coach?


JT:                  Well, when I was first studying all of this, I did have this massive excel spreadsheet, it was like a hundreds of pages of material that I had researched from books that I had read, but primarily it was practical experience. I went out and socialized. I did not spent a lot of time relatively speaking on collecting material.


And I say that – I know that I’ve collected hundreds of pages, I did but I also spent more time socializing in real life. So maybe like every hour that I read I spent two hours talking and socializing. I forced myself to spend more time in the real world than on my computer reading and trying to study.


And so when it came time to start actually teaching on my own, I was able to break down my experience into very discreet and understandable and teachable parts. Because back in the day when I was an aerospace engineer my job was to understand a complex system. It all breaks down to its individual components and I was also teaching people how to understand the system and break in down into its elements.


Michael:         So you knew the system. You know how to collect all the information and present it in a way that is easy to understand; bite-sized bits…


JT:                  ABC is a retraction. I know some people thought ABC stands for American Born Chinese, which is not true. A-B-C-D-E-F system. It’s a six step system. And I said each step, each letter – A, B, C, D, E, F – has three components. Inner confidence, verbal attraction and phisycal confidence.


So for example A is attitude. A mental thought process. And then there’s the part what do you say to the girl? And then attraction. Do you use body language, physical components because attraction happened before you even talked to the girl. And so in class I teach all that. So my students have a very good foundation with which to socialize and be confident. And it’s not just about the words and the tactics and the routines, or the material, it’s about everything. It’s up here, it’s about mind, body, and soul.


Michael:         So when you first received a call from a mom in Canada, did you perfect all the material at that time or were you still in progress?


JT:                  I was still in progress. I knew all the material, I’d practiced it, I knew what worked for me, and I also had an understanding that simply because it worked for me does not necessarily mean it will work for other people. I didn’t understand why certain tactics were effective and I couldn’t break those rules because I didn’t have any understanding of it.


And so when this Chinese Canadian mother called me to help her son who had been harassed by neo-nazis, I knew that he wouldn’t be able to absorb that much knowledge. And I had to break it down into something that was teachable. That’s why I came up with the acronym. It’s such a simple thing, A-B-C-D-E-F. And I was able to put my knowledge into discreet steps in such a way that he could remember it and repeat it consistently in order to get the same superior results. As opposed to me trying to teach him specific words, specific routines or specific minds.


And those collections, like random knowledge which you don’t know when to use, but by giving him a structure he was able to use it in a repeatable fashion in order to get consistent superior results.


Michael:         And how is he doing now, how is your first client doing right now?


JT:                  Well, I was in Canada late last year and he described his school experience and he had just moved in with his college girfriend. So they’re engaged.


Michael:         That’s happy ending, eh?


JT:                  Yep.


Michael:         So how did you feel after serving your first client and making your first sale?


JT:                  It feels great. I mean the thing is, with my first client I never intended it to be a job. I never intended that. I just that this ancient playboy blog that was simply for fun, you know? Putting my adverntures out, new stories, but it just gathered momentum. Because at the time, there was nothing like that. There were no Asian men talking about dating. I was one of – if not the only one – who was talking about ’This is what happened today, the good and bad.’ And she hired me but it was not something I really thought of.


And so instead of a job or a cereer it became more of a calling. Teaching Asian men to face their existence and lives in society, to face their own limiting beliefs and impose it against racsim [inaudible 24:40] or to officially [inaudible 24:44] he asked me to officiate, I had to get up there for the wedding and I had to say ’Will you take William to be your lovely wedded husband?’ It was amazing. It brought tears to my eyes to [inaudible 25:00] who was so desperate, he worked at Wall Street, that he was going to move to Taiwan. He was going to give up dating in America. Because he was getting two dates per year. Two dates.


Michael:         Wow.


JT:                  He was so fed up with America he was going to move and then heard about my program, took it and had immediate success. And then over the course of five or six years, he started dating, he started being happier and more confident and then he proposed to his girlfriend next year and then I was at his wedding in September. It was really amazing to see the changes that my program brought about…


Michael:         That’s an awesome success story for you. So how did you grow from one client to first hundred client?


JT:                  Well, I think when it comes to branding, the visibility is more important than the ability. Now when I see that, I don’t mean that you know, ignorant people should go and try to be succesful. You need to have a certain amount of competence and knowledge. But you need to be visible first.


I use the example of Jeremy Lin, the basketball player. If he had been more visible, if people had looked at him from the beginning as a potential NBA player, he would have became the next [inaudible 26:28] if only people had seen him, he’d have been picked up. If he had been noticed first. He had the ability, he spent so much time practicing.


So I tell you guys, you want to have visibility in order to get those clients. And client occupation for a company is primarily an online business. So you want to master one or two areas of social media. At the time blogs were the new thing. They were the new Facebook. So I started a blog and just kept blogging and attracted more and more and more people.


So choose one or two avenues or channels through which to reach your audience and go with that. Don’t try to go with everything. Don’t be a jack of all trades but a master of none. If you try to do everything, you’re good at nothing.


So whether it’s Facebook, or Twitter or Pinterest or Instagram or writing or blogging, pick two and master that.


Michael:         So at that time, back to 2005, you picked blogging and content marketing. Did you do any Google advertisment or something like that?


JT:                  No, it was almost completely word of mouth and very basic SEO. I knew a little bit about SEO, I looked it up, kind of self-taught, but a lot of my things were writing my articles, writing my stories and go on forums and talk about it and things kind of just picked up, like people started reading my blog and it was almost a pick-up artist community as well as the Asian community. And so in that way I was the beneficiary of two audiences. Not simply just one. One audience of potential customers, but two. So in that regard I was able to kind of have a broder reach.


I mean I think people think that Asian Americans are very niche or very small but we’re not. Or that the Asian community is small, but it’s not. And so I was able to attract this crowd of both communities that generally speaking didn’t really mingle.


Michael:         So the main avenue you used at that time was blogging. Is there any other avenue that you used besides blogging?


JT:                  Well, like live events, you know? Trade shows. Dating trade shows and I would speak and people started to talk about me and they told me they liked what I said, and so I became offline word of mouth. I get a lot of clients nowadays, people who talk about me to their friends because they’ve seen me at Harvard, they saw my video at Harvard and they tell their friends about it.


So back in those days I had the blog and then those trade shows, they would talk about me to their friends ’Oh, I saw this guy in this video. It was really cool, check him out.’


Michael:         Got you. And which one gave you the best bang for your buck? More referrals, more customers?


JT:                  That’s hard to say because back in those days I really didn’t keep much track of, like conversion analytics. That technical area I was never able to specialize in. I will say that some of the meat that I got, some of the [inaudible 30:41] got a lot of conversions, others not so much, but what I saw was any kind of really big magazine that had an online presence that would link me, that did really well.


Like New York Magainze or the Paper Tigers, that was pretty big. That drove a lot of traffic to me.


But like the [inaudible 31:00], that didn’t necessarily drive traffic per se but it did help with credibility and branding. Because for example national television, like four million people watched me. Harvard university, I didn’t necessarily draw a lot of traffic with that, but it gave me credibility. That’s what people want. Especially [inaudible 31:20] and kind of ebarassing to have a problem, I can say that I’m a subject matter expert because I taught at Harvard. Someone like that in that position, will not hire me unless I proved that I was credible, I had a certain bar of ethics and professionalism.


So I think in media, you have to differentiate. Some would drive traffic, others are more about branding and credibility.


Michael:         Got you. Just to recap, so you used blogging, live event and your appearance on big magazine.


JT:                  Yes.


Michael:         Got you. I talked to an amazing person last week, Shama Kabani and she did content marketing like you did, she wrote some articles, she wrote a blog, and one of her articles was picked up by Yahoo, and that was a turning point for her business, it just grew ten times or thirty times.


So what was the turning point for your business? When your phone just kept ringing and you started having to turn down some of your clients?


JT:                  Right. I think the [inaudible 32:50] book and the VH1 pick up artist show, it’s like the whole market opened up. Now that’s not something that one can easily replicate, I was simply in a position where I had amassed my rep, writing these blogs, gathering a following and when Niels [inaudible 33:17] wrote his New York Times best-selling book and the VH1 show came out, people just started flying to the internet. I was ready by accident to be the recipient of this kind of full market community.


It’s very similarto what I’ve read, how they talk about Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; he became Apple’s person and whatnot but he was at the right place at the right time.


Michael:         Right. Exactly.


JT:                  They became experts and when the time was right, they were able to take adantage of it. So I think getting to that point when you’re considered an expert and then when opportunity presents itself, you can take advantage of it.


Michael:         Wow, that’s awesome. So [inaudible 34:03] event came out and then the VH1 show and that’s how they popularized the idea of pick-up artist and that’s how they found you online and that’s why you picked up lots of clients.


Did you have to turn down anyone?


JT:                  In the beginning not so much, I started by helping everybody. But over time, yes, we turn down students. There are some students whose… their obstacles we’re more than unprepared to handle because I’m a teacher and I think I’m doing pretty damn well. I helping Asian men get girlfriends, have fun and to get married.


But I’m a teacher, I’m not a mental health professional. And if someone’s at the level of… like on anti-depressants or something like that, they need to go to someone who can really help them. I’m a teacher, I’m not a doctor. I’m not a psychologist. So I’ve had to turn down some guys.


And some of the guys simply have… are in the wrong mental place. Again I’ve had some students who would email me telling me they want to be students. But they have such negative belief, ’I want to go out, score a lot of white girls and get back at the white men.’ I’m like that’s a horrible belief. You’re not here to hurt people, you’re not here to score a lot of girls, you’re here to be better as a man. Not to go out there and hurt people.


And so I’m like ’You go look for someone else. I’m not going to teach you.’


Michael:         So besides picking your niche of targeting Asian men at that time, what did you present your unique service offer when you started your coaching business?


JT:                  Well, I would say we had a very structured system, the A-B-C-D-E-F system, which is about long-term sustainable growth and confidence, not simply teaching man routines and tactics as the old saying goes ’Feed them a fish and they’re only fed for a day but if you teach them how to fish, they’re fed for a lifetime.’ I teach them the entire foundation so that they have sustainable growth, sustainable confidence.


And also because of who I am and what I look like; if I can do it, they can do it.  That people are better able to relate to me, I’m short and average looking as opposed to say a tall white guy who gets women alright. He probably gets to date a lot of women but that’s because he has certain natural advantages. Not because he works hard or that he became smarter. He simply happens to be a foot taller than me.


But I get out there and use my skills. I worked hard for it. And I think thats a difference that’s appreciated in all my students because they see that the other guy does really well but it’s not an effort of their own. I mean they just happen to be good looking.


Michael:         Okay, wow, interesting. What was sort of the ’dream come true’ experience that you tried to help your student or when you do coaching.


JT:                  You mean…


Michael:         For example when you do coaching with them, how would you describe the dream come true experience for your client? For your student.


JT:                  Oh, well, we prepare them with what we put in deposit. We have the material that slowly gets them ready. Mentally ready as well as physically ready, like a little bit of fashion and things of that nature. So that when they come into this setting that we’re doing in the bootcamp, whether it is an office building or a hotel or whatnot, we try to present them with a professional setting. Like a 130 page handbook that has homework in it.


Because I know my Asian men, they love their homework. It’s very professional and it’s very understandable. So we treat it like a classroom setting so that they take it seriously. And then we practice it and practice it in that atmosphere and then we go out in the field whether it’s nighttime or daytime and we get them kickstarted. Get them… introduce them to some girls and we mold them out in the field so they’re getting the kind of feedback about the conversation so that they can continue to reiterate the process and try to make the next conversation, the next interaction better.


And so it’s sometimes this goes easy and sometimes not. Some students come in with a really low social intelligence so we really have to work on them and make sure that they’re not rejected too badly or to built them up. Other students get successes and that’s great. Because it also builds the success of other people.


Michael:         So after your student attended your trainings, how do you nurture your relationship with your students after the class is completed?


JT:                  Well, we have a post-bootcamp program where they get recommendations completely free of charge for the next two or so weeks to keep the momentum go. So it’s like a post-bootcamp package that they get for free. We have an online system then we have these discussion groups that are members-only and are called [inaudible 40:27], and so these students can talk to one another and you know, comment on one another’s thread, they meet up with one-another, so they can continue to get out t here and practice.


And then I also offer my students a 25% future discount for future programs. So they not only get further education at a discount, they also get like the fourth program for free.


Michael:         How do you cope with… are you familiar with the concept called buyer’s remourse? When they purchase your product or your class and then the next day they feel a little pain and they want their money back, how do you handle that kind of situation to minimize…?


JT:                  What happens when someone purchases or places a deposit on the bootcamp, obviously there’s some pain there that they want to get handles for them to admit that they need advice, they need education. It’s painful up to that point when they click the button and pay with their credit card.


Michael:         Right, but…


JT:                  They, almost everyone; 99% of my students describe the experience; once they pay, it’s a relief. Because the burden’s off. They finally admitted that they need help and they sought help and finally get professional help. And so for them they get this huge relief.


And not only have we set up this automated system of giving them a free newsletter and their own study course, but there’s this kind of instant feedback to their purchase, they see it and say okay, I’ve sent my money, here’s my expense, it’s not like a scam, nothing like that.


So it is a process – yes, there is buyer’s remourse but I think that it’s more like relief. And then obviously I call them up directly after they send their payment. They see that they’re getting something for their money immediately.


Michael:         What is your return rate or cancellation rate that you have right now with your business?


JT:                  Right, we have a return policy, it’s in aour FAQ, it’s essentially a refund, very similar to hotels and airlines. In effect let’s say – and we have this sometimes – like a students comes for X amount of time, maybe for a day or something like that and they have to go home because his brother died you know, God rest his soul and so he had to go back home. And so obviously we return his money. But again if you reserve it for the weekend, then you only stay for one day.


Michael:         Got you. I think it’s a very smart choice that you picked weekends. In one of your interviews you mentioned about the fact that in 2020, 24 million men hae no hope of getting women in China or in Asia in general.


JT:                  Yes.


Michael:         Because of the one child policy. I’d like to understand more about your plan of capturing these opportunities and what are your plans…


JT:                  Yeah, we’re trying to dip our toes there… but there is obviously some difficulty because of the censorship of the Chinese government. I think our website is censored.


Michael:         *chuckles* Ooops.


JT:                  Facebook is not allowed there. So a lot of our Westerna approaches for marketing are disallowed over there. But I mean I do have two mandarin speaking coaches, one coaches in Thailand, one is out here but there is some difficulty in trying to tap into the market because it is kind of closed off. Like from the perspective of Wester-based websites. People speak English, we have the open policy like Facebook and internet marketing. China is a lot more closed off.


Although we are making progress. Like I was just on Voice of America. And there were Chinese subtitles. So we put that on like YouTube because it’s Chinese speaking, English subtitles. So that will hit a more broader Chinese market.


Michael:         It’s still a challenge for you right now, right?


JT:                  Yes. That’s true of a lot of businesses try to tap into that because it is kind of very closed off compared to say China’s market in London or Australia.


Michael:         What are some of the lessons from your expertise of being a coach which can be applied to business? Maybe marketing or maybe sales, can you give me like a few tips?


Okay, maybe that’s a tough questions so first, how do you ask a girl out for a date and the same thing in business, how do you ask for an order?


JT:                  Well, the first step is always; you’ve got to try. Don’t worry so much, at least in the beginning of trying to get your words right. As Wayne Gretzky said ’You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.’ So you have to try it. You have to ask her out first. You have to to call a client first. Get past his secretary and to whoever is in charge to make decisions. You’ve got to try first. If you keep kind of waiting, you’re trying to perfect your pitch first, you’re going to be delayed. They say the speed of implementation is what is so important.


JT:                  Right.


Michael:         So when you see a girl, the moment you see her and feel in your heart that you want to talk to her, go talk to her. The more you hesitate, the less succesful you’ll be. The same thing in business. You need a speed of implementation. The more you wait and try to make it perfect, the less opportunity you’ll have.


Also, never take rejections personally, always take it as feedback, always turn it into something that you can use. That pain, use that to fuel your inner confidence. To fuel you in order to be a better man. Thake the feedback that you get from a [inaudible 47:22] and try to make the next try better. So you never take a rejection from a girl or a would be prospect as personal. Never take it personally.


Third, perception equals reality. I think that’s one of the biggest difficulties that Asian men have in America. It’s the fact that we’re succesful as far as business management goes, but we’re not succesful as executives. We work hard but we never get past that. I read somewhere that 30% of engineers and IT people are Asian whereas only 8% is American. So we’re very well represented in the management but not so much in the leadership.


So when it comes to perception equals reality, you have to project how you perceive yourself to other people. You can’t simply bury your head into work and expect your boss to recognize your effort. You have to be able to pick yourself up and you have to brag. I know bragging has a negative connotation especially among Asians, you’re supposed to be humble. But that’s not true. I think we all do it. Even Asian society does it, it just takes a different channel. Here in America you have to be able to present to your boss that ’Hi, I’m making this company a lot of money’ so that your boss appreciates your efforts.


And the same thing goes for dating. You have to dress a certain way, talk in a certain way to represent yourself, which expressions you use. How you present yourself to women makes them know that you’re worthwhile, a potential partner. You think you have a soul, a personality, but she has to see you first. It’s very important for you to understand how people around you are perceiving you.


Michael:         So in other words you have to constantly try to present your value. Whether in dating or whether in business.


JT:                  Exactly.


Michael:         Got you. Well, I know that recently you tried to break into the speaking circles of some of the colleges, can you help the audience understand more about your motives? I know that you’ve been focusing on the dating industry, your niche, for example you have a magazine about Asian men and white women, so that’s not a niche that I can see. And now in the niche of trying to talk about confidence, breaking the bamboo ceiling, what lets you attack into those markets?


JT:                  Well, again it’s people that have approached me. It just happened and once that happened, I decided that hey, being hired by Harvard is great. Let’s see if I can have other colleges hire me. And so it helps to have a publicist, it helps to have a media kit, it helps to be able to present yourself in a very professional manner. And you want to be able to – especially when it comes to schools, understand which subject matter ou’re going to talk about.


When you’re going to public schools, I think it’s leadership, motivation and prevention. These are the biggest topics to talk about in school. And I would say if you’re interested in being a true motivational speaker, get yourself educated. I follow Josh Shipp, a great motivational speaker. So he sells products on how to speak better, so I’ve studied his material and the ’chuck’ – I can’t spell his last name, ’Malenchuk?’ Or something like that who is also in the business of public speaking.


So I think it’s also a great advice; step number four: take lessons. Don’t be afraid to pay for lessons. Like why would you try to teach yourself calculus for how to do surgery? When you can pay for a math school to teach it for you. You’ve got to learn how to do sales of public speaking, I paid for that. I have nothing against getting superior teaching in order to make myself a better person. Whether it’s being a better salesman or being a better lady’s man, take lessons.


This may sound foolish but a peson trying to save money is going to lose money because time costs opportunity. I’d rather spend my time doing something more worthwhile and decrease education time as small as possible. So if you’re interested in public speaking? Pick up those materials.


It’s the same in dating. To get better dating results, you know…


Michael:         Absolutely, I mean your material is saving people, like one of your clients said, he only has like two dates per year and with your material he can experience more and meet more people.


JT:                  Yeah, he dated a lot more, like in one year he dated like forty dates, and he finlly decided that he found this one girl and she was girlfriend material, he dated her and he decided that she was wife material and proposed. So you have to learn how to date before you can find that special someone. And if I don’t ask someone out first, then I won’t have a date. It’s the you have to crawl before you walk and your have to walk before you run.


Learn how to be happy and succesful as your own man before you can find that special someone. Because that spcial someone is out there but she’s no going to wait around for you if you are a guy – and no matter how beautiful your soul is – if you have the wrong facial expression, if you have the Asian [inaudible 54:05] face that holds you back. If you don’t know how to talk. But even talking is different because you know, English is your second language but I’ve had so many students who were also [inaudible 54:15] and I teach them how to approach girls that is very succesful. That they don’t have to spend so much on talking, but more on your physicality, your body language.


Michael:         Got you. In sales, it’s common that people say that sales is a number game. What do you think, does the same thing apply to dating? Is dating a number game as well?


JT:                  There is a lot of parallels with sales when it comes to pick-up and attraction as number games but you can also stack the deck in your favour. So that every time you approach a girl, you’re more likely to be succesful. You go from talking to twenty girls a night and hope that one of them will talk to you to the point where I can talk to five girls and I’ll end up talking with one for the entire night. I don’t have to like machine gun them. There’s just that one really cute girl that I find interesting to talk to and boom. And that’s all I have to do.


But also when you start to incorporate lifestyle and more advanced design, as part of our advanced courses, you can start to create this passive attraction, where women start to approach you. And that’s much more advanced because you present an entire value. Women start to hit you up. And so that’s the deference between the hunter and the gatherer. When you go out there and talk to girls, you’re hunting but when you enter a bar and gather, then all this is coming to you. Like women start coing to you.


And the same thing applies to business. At first you really have to work hard to make your quota, but over time you get reputation for the quality, your product and your customer service. They start talking to their friends and you get to a point where you don’t have to work that hard to have all these sales come in. And so it’s like exponential growth. The most important thing is starting now. The older you get the later you start, you’re going to lose out on that exponential growth.


Michael:         Got you. How do you balance the life of always on the road, I know that next week you’re going to be in Australia. And how do you balance that life out?


JT:                  Well you know, business is pleasure and pleasure is business. It is somewhat difficult but at the same time it’s not. Because my job is to help people and it’s my job to talk to beautiful women, so it’s not that rough. Travelling and that jetlag, that’s pretty rough sometimes. But that’s why I take time off for myself. And I only view do X amount of programs per year, only two months, you know, and also there is a point where you’re going to raise your prices at twenty fourteen by like 32%, you know, I get a lot of casual people that are interested, but they might have a hard time committing and it gets to where you want to qualify leads and it becomes more important to take serious clients. I don’t need to take verybody on. Where I’m being more selective and the more selective you get, you generally get a better clientale who are serious and the means.


So that way it becomes more rewarding and takes less energy for me to travel to all these places.


Michael:         So how do you see the ABCs of Attraction in the next two years or five years?


JT:                  Well, I want to get to the point where we start to cut down the bootcamps. So even now we’re doing two bootcamps while we’re raising prices, I want to get to the point where I’m only teaching maybe one bootcamp and its prices are even higher.


So everybody who is watching this, join now before it gets more expensive. Because every year we’re raising prices. Revenue just keeps on going up. And so… what was the question again?


Michael:         I said how do you see the ABCs of Attraction in the next two years or five years?


JT:                  Cut down on programs, probably. Raise prices but also maybe more public speaking tours, as well as increase per passive sales and products, people can invest lower amounts of of their capital and buy some kind of product, video or training.


And that was income comes more passively.


Michael:         Passively and you have to actively engage in business. Okay JT, how do you want to be remembered, JT?


JT:                  JT Tran. *chuckles*


Michael:         JT Tran?


JT:                  Yeah, I’ve gone by JT since I was in high school.


Michael:         And that’s how you want people to remember you?


JT:                  Well, I’d like people to remember me by the fact that I tried to address a very serious issue when it comes to Asian American masculinity. Because between media and between coming from an immigrant… you know, families and the people that come from Asian because of China’s one child policy, there’s a large dating discrepancy and it’s a kind of pressure that applies to us, Asian men. And I wanted to do my part to really combat that pressure, provide a real solution for Asian men to be succesful, but also to do my part in defeating stereotypes that were portrayed at the beginning.


Now if we don’t see the positive simple change in society, that every single women wants then we need to be that positive change instead of waiting for someone else to do that. If I don’t see any good, then I can go there and make that good in the world.


Michael:         So how do people reach you and learn more about your products and your services?


JT:                  They can reach me for all their dating educational needs at, that’s ABCs of Attraction dot com, or they can call us toll-free at 1-8888-669-4263. Or give me an email at For our public speaking college, if anyone’s interested and want to speak to our college organizations, they can go to


Michael:         So would you have a discount if I referred you to them? Would you have a commission?


JT:                  Sure.


Michael:         Thank you JT, you’re very generous to share some of his perspective and tips to help you with your business, and please if you apply, let us know about your results, and we’re looking forward to hearing your success stories and JT, thank you so much for being here, and I wish you the best at your event in Australia.


JT:                  Alright, good luck with your magazine, thank you for having me.


Michael:         Thank you! Bye-bye.




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